Question regarding ArP and Crit

Hi guys..just to check.

Is there such a thing as a crit % cap?

I understand that for ArP
Rogues/Ferals/Warriors:
ArP softcap with NES: 722
ArP softcap with NES+MR: 57
ArP softcap with NES+GT: 110

NES is http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50198#dropped-by btw.
which means to get 100% ArP..just get this item from FOS

But i wonder if there is such a thing as a crit cap where too much crit is counter productive? Im at 52% unbuff crit now.

Anyone can advise? ken?

Yes for rogues. In essence, our crit cap is the maximum amount of crit one can stack, after which any additional crit rating is wasted. The formulae adopted by rogue theorycrafters is:

Crit Cap = 100% - 24% glancing blows - X% dodge chance - X% miss chance
where X% dodge chance is determined by expertise rating and X% miss chance is determined by hit rating.
Note: 4.8% of critical strikes are converted to normal hits after the above cap.

I found this quote which helped me understand the above concept:

"First an autoattack can be dodged, then it can be missed, (omitting parry and block since you should be attacking from the back), then it can be crit and whatever is left of 100% is your regular hit. So as your crit increases holding everything else constant, first you will end up in a situation where you do not have any hits at all. I.e all your attacks are either misses, dodges or crits. Then if you increase your crit further, you won't actually get any extra crits, since a certain percentage of your hit table is "reserved" for misses and dodges. This only applies to autoattacks, but it still takes a toll on the efefctiveness of crit rating and agility, so it becomes worthwhile to gem AP instead of agility."

kenpewpew wrote:Yes for rogues. In essence, our crit cap is the maximum amount of crit one can stack, after which any additional crit rating is wasted. The formulae adopted by rogue theorycrafters is:

Crit Cap = 100% - 24% glancing blows - X% dodge chance - X% miss chance
where X% dodge chance is determined by expertise rating and X% miss chance is determined by hit rating.
Note: 4.8% of critical strikes are converted to normal hits after the above cap.

I found this quote which helped me understand the above concept:

"First an autoattack can be dodged, then it can be missed, (omitting parry and block since you should be attacking from the back), then it can be crit and whatever is left of 100% is your regular hit. So as your crit increases holding everything else constant, first you will end up in a situation where you do not have any hits at all. I.e all your attacks are either misses, dodges or crits. Then if you increase your crit further, you won't actually get any extra crits, since a certain percentage of your hit table is "reserved" for misses and dodges. This only applies to autoattacks, but it still takes a toll on the efefctiveness of crit rating and agility, so it becomes worthwhile to gem AP instead of agility."

ok..i understand now..but as hunters do not have expertise..does that mean our crit cap might be higher than rogues?

Orhnee wrote:

kenpewpew wrote:Yes for rogues. In essence, our crit cap is the maximum amount of crit one can stack, after which any additional crit rating is wasted. The formulae adopted by rogue theorycrafters is:

Crit Cap = 100% - 24% glancing blows - X% dodge chance - X% miss chance
where X% dodge chance is determined by expertise rating and X% miss chance is determined by hit rating.
Note: 4.8% of critical strikes are converted to normal hits after the above cap.

I found this quote which helped me understand the above concept:

"First an autoattack can be dodged, then it can be missed, (omitting parry and block since you should be attacking from the back), then it can be crit and whatever is left of 100% is your regular hit. So as your crit increases holding everything else constant, first you will end up in a situation where you do not have any hits at all. I.e all your attacks are either misses, dodges or crits. Then if you increase your crit further, you won't actually get any extra crits, since a certain percentage of your hit table is "reserved" for misses and dodges. This only applies to autoattacks, but it still takes a toll on the efefctiveness of crit rating and agility, so it becomes worthwhile to gem AP instead of agility."

ok..i understand now..but as hunters do not have expertise..does that mean our crit cap might be higher than rogues?

dunno man.... have no idea what hunter hit tables are like!

kenpewpew wrote:Yes for rogues. In essence, our crit cap is the maximum amount of crit one can stack, after which any additional crit rating is wasted. The formulae adopted by rogue theorycrafters is:

Crit Cap = 100% - 24% glancing blows - X% dodge chance - X% miss chance
where X% dodge chance is determined by expertise rating and X% miss chance is determined by hit rating.
Note: 4.8% of critical strikes are converted to normal hits after the above cap.

I found this quote which helped me understand the above concept:

"First an autoattack can be dodged, then it can be missed, (omitting parry and block since you should be attacking from the back), then it can be crit and whatever is left of 100% is your regular hit. So as your crit increases holding everything else constant, first you will end up in a situation where you do not have any hits at all. I.e all your attacks are either misses, dodges or crits. Then if you increase your crit further, you won't actually get any extra crits, since a certain percentage of your hit table is "reserved" for misses and dodges. This only applies to autoattacks, but it still takes a toll on the efefctiveness of crit rating and agility, so it becomes worthwhile to gem AP instead of agility."

if this is the case:
-assuming yellow attack
-assuming we are soft cap expertise and hit rating.

your crit cap will be 100%- 24%? meaning 76%?

Aiers wrote:

kenpewpew wrote:Yes for rogues. In essence, our crit cap is the maximum amount of crit one can stack, after which any additional crit rating is wasted. The formulae adopted by rogue theorycrafters is:

Crit Cap = 100% - 24% glancing blows - X% dodge chance - X% miss chance
where X% dodge chance is determined by expertise rating and X% miss chance is determined by hit rating.
Note: 4.8% of critical strikes are converted to normal hits after the above cap.

I found this quote which helped me understand the above concept:

"First an autoattack can be dodged, then it can be missed, (omitting parry and block since you should be attacking from the back), then it can be crit and whatever is left of 100% is your regular hit. So as your crit increases holding everything else constant, first you will end up in a situation where you do not have any hits at all. I.e all your attacks are either misses, dodges or crits. Then if you increase your crit further, you won't actually get any extra crits, since a certain percentage of your hit table is "reserved" for misses and dodges. This only applies to autoattacks, but it still takes a toll on the efefctiveness of crit rating and agility, so it becomes worthwhile to gem AP instead of agility."

if this is the case:
-assuming yellow attack
-assuming we are soft cap expertise and hit rating.

your crit cap will be 100%- 24%? meaning 76%?

The above formulae only applies to white attacks. It won't be 76% either - I think someone managed to work out that there is an inherent 4.8% conversion of crit strikes to normal hits that you cannot get out of. Also note that at our current gear levels, its not possible to reach hard cap for hit rating - its too high. Also note that the above is meant to guide you in your selection of trinkets, as more often than not, its the proc trinkets that forces you above the crit cap... (this is also more relevant for rogues seeing our white damage makes up a substantial chunk of our dps. for fury warriors who rely more on yellow damage, i don't know how relevant the above is)